In the first episode of the Riffing With Christina podcast, Dillinger Escape Plan’s Ben Weinman talks to host Christina Rowatt about the new Dillinger Escape Album album, Giraffe Tongue Orchestra (his band with Brent Hinds of Mastodon and William DuVall of Alice in Chains), Mike Patton, Mr. Bungle, starting the band, where he’s at creatively now, sobriety, art, taking risks, alchemy, climbing the Harbour Bridge with Trent Reznor and collaborating with the brilliant Kimbra. Get riffing!
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On the new Dillinger Escape Plan album (and Larry David):
Ben Weinman: The music is pretty much completely made and then Greg comes in and then does his thing, which is a whole, whole other thing, you know? It’s like me and Greg work creatively on these things in our own spaces and when we come together it really turns into Dillinger. I’m on the East Coast, he’s on the West Coast, he’s going through his things, I’m going through my things. Greg is the last stage.
We have a complete instrumental Dillinger record done and I’m just going through doing my bells and whistles. I always go through and do orchestrations and electronics and sound design … it’s always a many tiered process – it starts with no rule. There could be something on piano, something on guitar, then Billy jamming on drumbeat – the spark of an idea, there’s no rules for that. Eventually what happens is our drummer Billy and I sketch out some skeletons and record in my studio, start putting ideas down, listening back. Energy is really important to us so it needs to feel right like as a live entity. Its not the type of thing where we’re just using technology to piece things together, we’re really playing in a room. Making sure it feels right.
Often we’ll put it into the computer and go I think we should shorten this, or whatever. Then, the demo process gets a little more involved and I say, Billy, leave! Then I start working even more in-depth, start creating guitar layers and other parts, and then we go back and re-dress it. Then I’ll start putting more things down, making synths and then last but not least Liam will play bass on it… we’re all working in different places so Dropbox has become a really important tool for us. Every now and again, bing! and there’ll be a new song in the box.
Christina: Is it dark, is it upbeat? Is it like a Larry David rock opera? I was thinking it would be really good if they did make a Larry David rock opera, where the music was really dense and he came in and he sung really really badly, or he had an amazing voice, you never know.
Ben Weinman: I have to say that this phenomenon of Larry David, like everybody loves Curb and everyone loves Larry. And it’s like that kind of humour is something that I thought only Jews from New York would be into. To see that in the world is really exciting for me … I can just relate to him. When he says, ‘when someone cancels on me, that’s doing me a favour’ I can relate to that. Most of the time, I don’t want to leave the house and I don’t want to go out (laughs).
Christina: I feel you on this, when you get into the habit of making what is in your head real, that becomes more exciting than anything else. Is it a dark album? Is it a polka record?
Ben Weinman: It’s heavy man. I mean I don’t know, it’s super heavy, it’s definitely dark, but I think it’s actually weirder than maybe our last record. There’s like ideas and riffs that just are so weird, I have to say when I hear it I’m proud to say nobody sounds like Dillinger, really. We may be the worst band in the world, but when I listen to it, I really don’t think anybody would ever write a riff like this. And that’s I guess what I’m most proud of. And that’s what you gotta do, that’s what we try to be, you know? A band that stands out. I think one of my favourite things I’ve ever read or proudest moments was I was reading an interview with somebody – a music journalist who had asked his little cousin, who was like twelve, what bands he likes. He said ‘I don’t know, I just like songs, like on a playlist. I don’t even know the bands, I just like have a playlist and like a bunch of metalcore songs. I don’t even know who they are,’ and then he said, ‘oh no, but I like that band, Dillinger Escape Plan.’
To be the band in a playlist of nameless, kind of personality-less songs, to be the band he actually knew, that was different, you know… that had a sound, that when he heard it he was like, ‘oh I know who this is,’ I guess that’s all we ever wanted to be.
On his Giraffe Tongue Orchestra collaborator, Brent Hinds of Mastodon:
Christina: Brent seems like an interesting character. I bumped into him at a festival once and said how are you going? And he said ‘hi, I’m William Shatner’ and then he walked away and I was like, ok, he’s on his own trip.
Ben Weinman: Brent is an interesting dude, man. He’s like one of the last true rock and rollers left. Not like these guys who are like let me get my whole body tattooed in one month, and put eyeliner on, and alter my voice and go be in some shit band. He’s truly like a guy from the Seventies who just walks around with a guitar and is just like ‘hey I got a riff!’ da-nah! He doesn’t even know how to use email well. He’s just truly a rocker, you know what I mean? He’s truly a rocker ’til the day he dies.
Christina: How did you guys meet?
Ben Weinman: The Mastodon guys and us have been buddies forever. We were on Relapse Records together. We toured together very very early on in both of our careers. Before Mastodon, Bill and Bron were in this band Today’s The Day (who I was a big fan of) and were also on Relapse Records, the record label we spent most of our career on. So there’s just a long history with those guys.
Christina: Did their fans instantly like you guys and did yours like them?
Ben Weinman: Interestingly enough, back in the day we took Mastodon on tour. They were our opening act many, many years ago. We were big fans and we loved the guys so yeah, and then they did really well. So yeah, I think there’s definitely crossover.
The thing that’s great about Mastodon, when I think about what has contributed to a lot of their success, is that they write music that is accessible to the common, white trash metalhead. But is also, for someone who wants more, really artistically relevant and really interesting and really unique. So its like this band that is tricking people. We’re actually really artistic and awesome and but if you’re just like some metalhead who doesn’t care, and just wants to drink beer and headbang, you’re going to like this too.
On his Giraffe Tongue Orchestra collaborator, William DuVall of Alice In Chains:
Ben Weinman: I first saw Alice in Chains come back on Soundwave, when we were playing. I remember it like everyone was skeptical, you know? We had played and then Bloodhound Gang went on and probably threw up in someone’s mouth, and then Alice in Chains went on, and I saw like the sun was setting and like it was like ‘ok, here comes this guy trying to sing … and they kicked into like ‘Would?’ or something and you just got chills, man. You got chills. The hair on your arms stood up, it was like whoa! This is awesome.
[William DuVall] is like a true craftsman of his art. He takes singing so seriously, I mean, that motherfucker… that guy doesn’t talk before shows. He sits and drinks tea for a few hours. This guy takes it so seriously. And that’s so refreshing coming from like the world where I come from where people are running around on tour buses and screaming and not giving a fuck about their voice.
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“Riffing With Christina” is a new podcast where amazing artists and musicians from around the world riff with Australian journalist Christina Rowatt on art, risk and living a rock and roll life. Ben Weinman is the first guest, and Devin Townsend is next week’s guest. Christina has hosted more than 148 artist interviews on YouTube with some of the world’s most exciting rock artists. Check out all her other interviews here. Christina just joined Instagram, come hang.
- Dillinger Escape Plan & Christina interview (2014): YouTube link
- Dillinger Escape Plan & Christina interview (2012): YouTube link
- Dillinger Escape Plan & Christina interview (2009): YouTube link
- Duff McKagan & Jerry Cantrell (Alice in Chains) (2014): YouTube link
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